Christ DEPENDS on us to be His Hands, His Voice, His Presence in this world that needs Him so much. I hesitate to call it from the devil only because I think its equally possible, or even probable, that its simple a case of either an emotionally imbalanced woman (Sweeney) or a shrewd woman seeking notoriety and a very comfortable lifestyle. Thats not the topic of this thread. The chambers of the heart spoken about at Holy Love Ministries is indicative of entering more deeply into union with God. I sincerely hope that you consult an orthodox priest about what I wrote in response to your points. One bishop has warned against HLM. In other words, alleged messages are prized more highly than the truth of the Gospel, He who hears you hears Me and that it is through the Church we discern the spirits, not outside of it. reported that Kyle responded to Lennons decree by stating, https://catholicexchange.com/2006/11/06/94475/, The Real Marie Antoinette | feat. Either we accept the authority of the Church, or we reject it. When one resorts to name calling, it is a clear sign of hostility aimed at ones opponent. Michael Rennier. A non-believer can simply read the older warning messages, dated much before any occurrences, and see for himself. Using your logic Joan was wrong for not denying her voices. When others disapprove of your participation here, remember Heaven approves. 4) An HLM organization may not use the name Catholic and is not approved by Lennon. The bishops condemned Joan of Arc. Has he checked their theological content? Heres the entries for synonyms for admonish: berate, censure, rebuke, chide, reprimand, reprove, scold. After Thomas challenged my article, I wrote to Fr. I will say a prayer for you. 4 You pray for government leaders who support abortion.". You are all mixed up big time. The bishops who wrote those letters are not approving authorities for HLM. Again, this is a metaphor for the interior life of grace as it is stated by the mystical theology of the Catholic Church. It is 3221s responsibility to have the information handy. I am speaking about bishops who guide their sheep into error. (6)What I most wish to convey to you is how much Jesus depends on souls who have sincerely consecrated themselves to the Cross. . I will say that HLM has saved themselves much wrangling by becoming ecumenical. 3 You pray for the conversion of anyone who supports. What of the many miracles and increased devotion so many experienced at the site? The devil is too cunning to take on by oneself. I pray that one day his eyes will open, but no amount of logic will convince him of the truth. You say that Disobedience to Church authority is one of the premier hallmarks of a false vision, etc.. when there are those in Church Authority themselves that are disobedient to the Pope and the Magisterium. The word condemned was not used but it is apparent that there are serious concerns regarding the authenticity of the apparitions, among other things. A prophecy was recently sent to Catholic philosopher, Daniel O'Connor, from Father Michel Rodrigue. Stop making premature judgments about HLM. Bishops DO OWE the faithful an explanation for what they say and do. Amen." (meaning every wrong that has been done to you). This is a gossip piece with nothing related to the doctrine of the Catholic Church or its Scriptural interpretation. These canons are as follows: ~~ Not a warning as you like to interpret it. Questions remain. and this is a later explanation for something that doesnt logically make sense to begin with. Deliver us Lord, we pray, from every evil, graciously grant peace in our days, that, by the help of your mercy, we may be always free from sin and safe from all distress, as we await the blessed hope and the coming of our Savior, Jesus Christ. (Embolism from Mass prayers). When others disapprove of your participation here, remember Heaven approves.You increase in holiness when your relationship with Me is such that you seek only to please Me.. However, its my understanding that St. Joan refused to lie by saying that she was not hearing voices. If one reads Lennons Decree carefully, there is a LOT more going on in it than how some are arguing it. Would the devil be behind the formation of prayer groups? As quoted in the Summa, here are some errors in thinking which underlie false obedience, that is, obedience through excess: (1) Church hierarchy is absolute. The one place I can go today to be instructed in the depth of the Catholic Faith is Holy Love Ministries. You have every right even a duty to suggest caution, as you did in your article. If Rome asked this bishop to send a report and based upon his observations, this is not a true apparition site, best to obey. You are fixated on your belief that those who do not heed Bishop Lennons advisement (another synonym for admonishment) are therefore disobedient. Great spiritual blindness has struck many consecrated and the confusion will be great in the House of God. Do not be tricked into overlooking the abundant harvest of grace here. I love it deeply, for it has led me to know God, to love Him, and to serve Him in this world so that I may be happy with Him in the next. Do not take what St. Ignatius says out of context. And so we should never agree to wearing this Angel Chip. You will not be able to do so.The charism of HLM is the preservation of the true Faith. I admonish the faithful of the Diocese of Cleveland to cease gathering for any religious, liturgical, spiritual or devotional purpose on the site ofHoly Love Ministries and declare that the Confraternity of the United Hearts of Jesus and Mary is not an approved association of the Christian faithful in the Diocese of Cleveland and may not legitimately use the name Catholic or represent itself as a Catholic group, Lennon said in his decree. We all know how that turned out. He obeyed the Bishop because he knew that obedience to his Bishop and the magisterium are required by God. At Holy Love Ministries the lay faithful have an opportunity to learn the depth mystical theology of Catholicism in all its rich and pristine clarity,as well as in its orthodox consistency, but Bishop Lennon expects obedience simple because he is the bishop. We cannot say that of Bishop Lennons canonical record, now can we? To whom shall we go? There have been many examples of dishonesty and foolishness in the messages. What is the applicable Canon number for what you have just stated? These are people willing to travel great distances and do whatever else it takes to bask in love and graces from heaven. Following closely upon this is a statement on how Lennon proceeded in reviewing the case. Do you tink that pleased God? As St. Thomas says, Those who obey in excess are headed for a great fall.. This is not to understand it at all. This does not sound like a unified condemnation story, now does it? Now the whole purpose of going to HLM is predicated upon the belief the claims come from God. Of course Our Lady needs our prayers. Its hard and very challenging. Can you say that of many bishops now in this country? All wonderful recommendations. To this day my daughter recites the rosary daily and every possible chance Adoration I pray daily for wisdom and dicernment. In fact, sometimes Ive thought about writing my own book about how disastrous my visit to Conyers became to my own personal faith journal. I pray for friends of mine that also are addicted to the place and see nothing odd, no internal warnings at all, let alone disobeying the Bishop. I dont see the point you might be trying to make by posing that question. Both her ignorance of Catholic doctrine, as well as her inability to think clearly became obvious for all to see. After the fateful Easter, the cross was removed from the field and Marino withdrew a request to build a 10,000-seat chapel and a seven-story, cross-shaped hotel. Believe., ***********************************************, (10/14/12-JESUS) The message here is so simple love God and neighbor as yourself.i thank God he gives us all our free will and pray from the bottom of my heart for wisdom and heavenly discernment for all. The Book Club at Roman Catholic Spiritual Direction: (http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12621) will begin reading that very book this coming week. God calls ALL people to repentance and conversion. You and those who are bashing the messages of HLM are not exhibiting to me common sense at all. Bishop Lennon has no right to prevent those who want to learn their Faith from attending Holy Love. The Holy Love messages are promoting nothing but good, which makes everything against it evil. I too have had wonderful experiences at Holy Love that have brought me so much closer to God, my church and my faith. To be repulsed by Holy Love Ministries is to be repulsed by the true doctrine of the Catholic Faith. Catholics must keep their heads on straight and not wander from Church teachings, but praying at an apparition site is not wrong. He is a very sick man. Is this not akin to dismissing it all? In addition, there are a number of followers in the area where I live who were irritated by my observations. depends on souls who have sincerely consecrated themselves to the Cross. This is contrary to our faith. I affirm to you, my daughter, that each Hail Mary prayed from a loving heart will rescue one of these innocent lives from death by abortion. Some take them in but then spit them out never assimilating them. Let me quote again from Catholic Apologetics: Is not fidelity to the true teaching of the Church to be given. 2) All Catholics are obliged under Church law to obey the directives of the competent ecclesiastical authority on matters of private revelation. I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now. Id not heard of it ~ Our Lady of Good Help ~ in Wisconsin. If this is of God, it wont go away, as we are told in scripture. One is either Catholic or not. Several members of Sweeneys small ministry became disillusioned and left.. Here are just a few of the more glaring examples, along with the dates they were stated so you can read them in full. Obedience does not mean following the erroneous directives of bishops. He has issued a warning. They claim numerous miracles are occurring and special blessings are bestowed on all who come. in favor of a humanistic gospel with no sense of the supernatural. Were they standing with truth? I just read yesterday about HLMs description of the remnant.. Do you lack the intellectual honesty or courage to allow a free debate or are you just an activist journalist pushing an agenda? The bishop has said it is not from God. When will you respond those? I admonish the faithful of the Diocese of Cleveland to cease gathering for any religious, liturgical, spiritual or devotional purpose on the site of Holy Love Ministries and declare that the Confraternity of the United Hearts of Jesus and Mary is not an approved association of the Christian faithful in the Diocese of Cleveland and may not legitimately use the name Catholic or represent itself as a Catholic group.. They did not because they could not. When has Jesus rejected His own authority that of the Catholic Church? Such is the case with Holy Love. Blessed Mother is helping her children to return to God before its too late. I do not know what I said Harry. Our prayers, in Holy Love and united, have changed the course of this nation and eventually the world, which was heading towards a damnation. The Holy Spirit will certainly guide each of us if and when we have that sincere Love hopefully Holy Love! No wonder the world,particularly the USA is in such a mess-morally and spiritually. her eyes are so blinded and all I can do is pray and mention it now and then Kathy from Iowa. Finally, you assume that since God has never done before what He is doing at HLM, it is proof that he would not do it ever. The maxim is usually something along these lines: there are bad people in the Church today.. Many are not to be trusted. Thanks be to God ~ the Most Holy Trinity and Mother Mary Most Holy! As with David in Psalm 32, God convicts us so that we can experience forgiveness ( Psalm 32:3-5 ). Christ has done that for us. Her messages are all of holy love, and doing gods will. Yes it warns its followers against heretical bishopsas does Aquinas in the Summa Theologica. I didnt read the whole thing but scanned it. Now, tell me, was the great Mother Teresa disobedient? Then, it becomes a matter of obeying Catholic authority or thinking you know better. Been there. Then came a time of upheaval. Gay couples cant get married in church. What is your point in quoting all these excerpts from the Gospel? There is no error in what is coming out of HLM. Period. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons. What you are missing is that it is the bishops themselves who have undermined the Catholic Faith. Elizabeth thinks HLM is a Church, thereby giving evidence of her complete ignorance of the interior life of grace. Even the messages contradict themselves! We are sorry that the bishop has taken this position. In the case of this particular apparition, no legitimate investigation was ever done. One local bishop is not the definitive word on an apparition site, nor does it denote the definitive decision of the Catholic Church hierarchy. I will pray for you too, Elizabeth, as well as for all those who doggedly insist on mocking and maligning HLM.. God bless you all and may you have a joyous and grace-filled Advent and wondrous Christmas. A six-chambered heart is not an apt metaphor for the heart of God. It is employed when the competent ecclesiastical authority decides a claim to be constat de non supernaturalitate (does not consist of the supernatural). And may their souls and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. I think this puts the HLM in even greater disrepute. Jesus told us not t judge, did He not? How dare you and shame on you! Our Blessed Mother would lead her children to understand that the virtue of obediencetrue obedience as opposed to false obedienceis obedience to the true and full Faith, not to a bishop who is preventing that Faith from being learned. This is sad, especially when Catholics have Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament where they visit Him. St. Ignatius is referring to the Magisterium, which is the definitive authority of the Catholic Church. If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. Did she have one?That is the only way, plus obedience to the Church . Why?. You are a clear writer: you line of questioning tells the whole world, clearly, that you are digging for dirtsome scandal to justify your disobedience. Or, is this something that happened in the past? No, Mary it is NOT the last word. Too often, after apparitions are condemned people feel betrayed and give up on God and the Church. I still have to read a message from Holy Love that is against church teaching. Unfortunately, those have cultish devotion to things like HLM tend to brook no logic. God chose 12 men as disciples later to become priests. My reference is the newspaper,The Wanderer I do not know which issue, butif you contact them I am sure they can hjelp yo locate the correct issue. God bless, Tom. You are naive if you think it is loyalty to the Church to obey directives blindly from bishops who clearly are in defiance of Rome. I would also refer you to a little known text entitled, Faith is greater than obedience, by Fr. The Most Reverend Richard Lennon Bishop of Cleveland. The sole purpose of Holy Love is to bring people closer to God, but all she does is find fault. Spiritual pride ~ you nailed it, but fail to see it in yourself. There is absolutely no reason to invest yourself in questionable devotions. All this is holy in nature but is not proof of authenticity of purported apparitions. In November of 2006, I wrote an article for Catholic exchange exposing the Holy Love site. I am not one of the editors and have no such control over this conversation. Jesus Accepts His Cross. I am writing again about Holy Love because some followers contacted me regarding my article of 11/20/09 (reproduced below), Proclamation on Holy Love Will Test Hearts and Obedience. To convince this person that these messages arent coming from Heaven. They surely cannot say no credibility can be given about HLM messages, as HLM messages are all the teachings of the Catholic Faith. I call upon every poster (and future ones as well) to ignore 3221. That is exactly what it equals. That means that he had, and has, four chambers in the human heart of His human nature. I made my own choices about Holy Love and share with many people information and about the grounds of Holy Love. These are the facts and this is what in the world I am talking about.. I do not often agree with Ron Conte over on Catholic Planet, but he does have a reference page on his site concerning Maureen Sweeney-Kyle and HLM. Without a supernatural character, one does not have any reason to go to HLM. Someone said that such compelling evidence of positive fruits proves this is from God. Secondly, the Blessed Mother has acted through a perfectly legitimate canonical move. The term Holy Love refers to the messages and teachings of these particular messages, not to the Love of God, not to the teachings of the Church, not to the Catholic Faith in general. God loves prayers and wants us to love Him back. The Church is where the full Catholic Faith is being taught and upheld. Remember, Holy Love is an ecumenical place, not Catholic. Does he speak out forcefully on life issues? I doubt the devil will give praise to Jesus as a greeting or promote love in hearts or obey the 10 Commandments. When will we learn to listen and obey the Holy Spirit??? Whether or not you can find the source, it is a true a account. Holy Love Ministry Messages by Topic. In the Mystical Theology of St. John of the Cross (Doctor of Mystical Theology of the Catholic Church) he explains that in mystical union with God, the soul becomes God and God becomes the soul. and I quote:no other messages are needed because our message envelops all the other messages They know what the Faith is, but soon God will bring them to Heaven. concrete evidence of why he has made this decision makes me very skeptical of his decision. I will also add anger. There are none, nor could he name any. Again, go back to your synagogue of satan. What do you do? Very informative. Navigating the Interior Life: Spiritual Direction and the Journey to God, article on Apparitions/Private Revelations, Holy Hacks: Everyday Ways to Live Your Faith & Get to Heaven, Big Hearted: Inspiring Stories from Everyday Families, http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12621, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/06/10/spiritual-direction-book-club-how-do-i-join-it%29, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12630, http://www.ewtn.com/Library/NEWAGE/MUGABAY.TXT, http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2009/11/obedience-to-catholic-church-judging.html, http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/home/, http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PU.HTM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zh-yR0pbmU, Irish Prayers for Strong Families and Spiritual Protection, 20 Ways to a Holy Christmas Through Advent, St. Michael, St. Gabriel, St. Raphael, Archangels, Book Review: Habits for Holiness by Fr. But the consciences of the saints told them to obey their bishops and/or superiors when they were unfairly treated or disciplined. There is no meaning here that we are to condone sin. I think that this third point is the crux of it all for this person (and others that continue to go to the site). And youre taking that over and above a Bishop of the Church? To go to Holy love, see a beautiful statute and maybe be at peace on what to me, is very much holy ground, doesnt mean your believing in Maureen and no longer the church at all. @3221, you have set yourself up to be the interpreter and arbitrator of Lennons Decree. I think you are proving the point. This is Not true. When was the last time any Catholic heard a Bishop or a Priest condemn the evil of contraception from the pulpit? Again, Catholic obedience must always be to the Faith. This is according to St. Thomas Aquinas. Nor would there have been the initial miracles to report at Lourdes, France if people did not flock to the miraculous spring. That is what the local bishop issued in the case of Holy Love. The saints took the opposite road. It did not. There are genuine miracles from Holy Love, and Ive had very powerful miracles there, With assistance from very conservative priests AND an exorcist,, these things proved to be genuine and not diabolical. Are they being disobedient? HLM gives a clear delineation of the truths of the Catholic Faith. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zh-yR0pbmU. All this is holy in nature but is not proof of authenticity of purported apparitions. The messages portray the Father saying that He is the Virgin Mary: "All must know I am the true Holy Trinity, the true Father, the true Son, the true Holy Spirit. I have been at HOLY LOVE, about 18 times since 2009 and its another true gift from God. No one is asking you to accept and believe in HLM. Does Bishop Lennon have serious concerns about his pattern of lying that has been documented from his time in Boston where he participated fully in the cover up of literally thousands of sexual abuse cases and which continued here in Ohio? In general, if it is not church approved (Lourdes, Fatima, etc. The fact that Bishop Lennon wont provide me or others any i believe there were over a hundred clergy in non holy relationships for many yrs and overlooked by whom.??? In fact I know him, Fr. You are all wet canonically on that one. But obviously, his Bishop did not have good intentions. An admonition is not a dictate., 3221 believes that the Blessed Virgin Mary told them all on 11/18/09 (after Bishop Lennons Decree): In the case of this particular apparition, no legitimate investigation was ever done. Too often, if an alleged apparition is condemned people feel betrayed and give up on God and the Church. There are none. There is a consistent argument in these comments concerning the nature of condemnation from admonish/warn. I think it is necessary to delve into this matter. So, be cautious and pray to the Holy Spirit to give you discernment. If anything, HLM has brought me to a deeper understanding of the ancient truths of my Faith. I had been warned by Thomas and a couple ofothers (friends of his, Im guessing), that souls are at stake should my words turn people away from Holy Love. The implication is these bad people (whoever they may be) are attempting to suppress a message purported to be from heaven. They do not have confessions or Mass on the property, as requested by the Bishop. Lack of forgiveness is not of God because it is against LOVE. Read: sometimes it could do grave harm to someones reputation. His disapproval of HLM does not nullify HLMs veracity. From The Imitation of Christ (Book 3, Pg 160): Thanks for that Liz. I meant to speak more generally. I just find it so sad that this place is set up right beside a genuine Apparition Site here In Ireland. Mike. Would you add to your intentions, please, that 3221 refrain from using such vulgar language as 3221 used above Let me tell you something else, Kevin, while you are d_______ with proper canonical procedure? Having visited the site unknowingly on a pilgrimage with my Mom (who had been invited by her friends whos parish was going and invited me rather nonchalantly; read, she didnt even bother asking where we would go). The Devils revelations beget pride, presumption and disobedience to GODs Church on earth. I will encourage people to go. You also are so obsessed with Church law that you are missing what the Church is suffering.. Again, I learned this from Aquinas, The Church is where the true Faith is. Do not judge those who do not. Tell me, is this good and normal? What actually happened according to The Morning Journal newspaper of Ohio, was that Bishop Richard Lennon,Ordinary of theDiocese of Clevland, issued a Decree to clergy and laity of the diocese regarding Holy Love Ministries of Lorain County on Nov. 11, 2009: Having been directed by the Holy See (in Rome) to act definitively in the matter of the alleged apparitions and having reviewed the theological content of the alleged apparitions to Maureen Sweeney-Kyle and having consulted an expert in this matter, I declare that the alleged apparitions and locations are not supernatural in origin. Lennons decree states he forbid members of the clergy of any ecclesiastical jurisdiction to celebrate the sacraments on the site of Holy Love Ministries. For now, I can say that the word condemn is an older, more traditional term used in these affairs. And the pilgrims are indeed coming even from other countries. Translation: I like to practiceits also an avenue for those who cannot understand the English well. She tells us that God wants us to focus on growing in self knowledge instead of probing others spiritual state. I repeat: Bishop Lennon has only advised warned and counseled his disapproval of HLM. how manny bishops gave lip service to jp2. Guard me against all evil. Bishop Richard Lennon, head of the Cleveland Catholic Diocese, has issued a decree to clergy and laity of the diocese that Holy Love Ministries of Lorain County is officially off limits. However, once the Church has condemned a site and declared it off limits to clergy and laity, its a different ball game. Or Jesus and Mary incessantly talk about U.S. politics, politicians, who to vote for, applauding various election outcomes. Do you not know that it is through our free will choices that we sin? The ministry has literally changed my life. You, 3221, say there is nothing against the Faith at HLM. Bishops are charged with the task of investigating and pronouncing on alleged apparitions. To be honest, I tried my best to fully experience the site (however, I was already in a sour mood due to lack of sleep). Especially after the Bishop came out strongly with his condemnation, there were numerous messages both from the Blessed Mother AND Jesus explaining to us dear children that the Bishop is wrong and that we all must continue to come to this holy site and words to that effect. Nobody claims to be gods here. God the Father is spirit and God the Holy Spirit is spirit. Proves the point that HLM doesnt have a claim. To Tom D: I too went to Conyers, GA as well as Kettle River and stopped by Necadah, WI once when I noticed a large billboard advertising a Marion Shrine. 3221 believes that St. 3,628 were here. Holy Love Messages "This is the decade (2020-2030) when it is most important to discern correctly good from evil, as Satan's instruments will rise to power clothed in goodness. Holy Love did not disobey the Bishops letter. 3) The faithful in the Diocese of Cleveland are admonished against gathering for functions (presumably held by HLM) on HLM property. When in the history of the Catholic Church have approved apparitions consisted of a Blessed Mother going freestyle outside the Church? At that point, Holy Love Ministries took an ecumenical approach. It is the Heart of the Eternal Father. In light of the above canons and the Christian obedience they speak of, whether it was a simple warning or explicit order forbidding people to go to HLM is irrelevant. Ecumenical Nature; Recommended Approach; . Just wait and you will see. Thirdly, there are many bishops who not only approve, but are actually involved, in the promulgation of HLM. I am asking about his stands on all things Catholic. "No. Often genuine sites that are later approved by the Church are frowned upon by the bishop under which they serve. And they are, so they have mortal sin in their body and soul. The relevance of Merdjugorie to HLM is that the local bishop of Medjugorie DISAPPROVED of it as did Bishop Lennon of HLM. Yes. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven (Matt. It is all strictly the teaching of the Catholic Faith. It is like the fruit put into the basket of love and humility. We, as Christians, need to stop segregating ourselves and look for the true meaning in Christ HOLY LOVE = the 2 greatest Commandments- Honor God above all else and love EVERYONE else. Perhaps his use of the phrase admonish the faithful to cease gathering for any religious, liturgical, spiritual or devotional purposes suggests something otherwise to you? Holy Mother Church is indeed wise. In the same way Lennons decision is not definitive either. The bishop has an obligation to pastor his people and protect and nourish their faith.

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