Winchester only sold about 29,000 Model 1905 rifles from 1905 to 1923. in the Big Bore Model 94. The .35 Rem. M1 Carbine vs. Winchester .351. The Model 351 C is an AirWeight variation of Smith & Wesson Centennial Model. The .30-30 Winchester and .35 Remington won't break any speed recordsthere's no doubt about that. According to a recent Federal Emergency Management Agency report, fewer people are "prepping" today compared to previous years. Standard government-issue rounds reach over 1,500ft/s (460m/s), with factory loads, and handloads producing similar velocities or tuned for more efficient short-barrel performance without excessive blast. The muzzle velocity was stated to be 1850 fps and the muzzle energy 1370 ft. lbs. Army Ordnance Major Rene Studler persuaded Winchester that the Winchester M2 .30-06 rifle, a design started by Ed Browning and perfected by Winchester engineers including Marshall "Carbine" Williams, could be scaled down for the .30 Carbine cartridge. Mossberg .22 LR models 340 340A 340B 340M 342 342K 344 344K 346K 346B 350 350K 351 352 352K 353 Rifl Winchester mod. Unfortunately for Winchester, the Model 10 was not a good seller and the company only produced about 20,000 produced before dropping it from production in 1936. Back in the day, shooters were just transitioning from black powder to smokeless powder. [4] When compared to other medium bore rounds, the .351 SL is closer in power to the .35 Remington (200 grain .358 bullet at 1,950 to 2,000 fps from a 20-inch barrel) than it is to the .357 Magnum carbine (158 grain bullet at about 1,800 fps). 351 Winchester Self/ Loading 12 HRN390552 19 LEE90004 15 LY7738055 19 RCBS09219 5 RED11005 LENGTH OF MAGAZINE 5.99? Using basically the same action, they introduced the Winchester Model 1910 semi-automatic rifle along with the .401 Winchester Self Loading (.401WSL) in the spring of 1910. And the Winner Is Mag. You might already know this. Common types used by the military with the carbine include: The .30 Carbine was the basis for Melvin M. Johnson's .22 Spitfire (5.7x33mm), necking the .30 Carbine's case down to a .22 caliber bullet. We have a variety of deals on Rifle Ammo, Handgun Ammo, Shotgun Ammo & Rimfire Ammo, as well as ammo for target practice, plinking, hunting, or shooting competitions. The carbine and cartridge were not intended to serve as a primary infantry weapon, nor was it comparable to more powerful intermediate cartridges later developed for assault rifles. Plainfield Machine Corp. made a .30 caliber pistol from 1964 to 1983 named the "Enforcer". loaded with a 180-grain Oryx bullet to the .358 Norma Mag. One can almost hear the echoes of Norma Mag. THE USUAL CRACKS IN THE FORE END. The US .30 cal M1 Carbine is one of the most important developments in the personal defense weapon story, being one of the very first* intermediate calibers to be adopted as standard issue by a nation, and arguably the first purpose-designed PDW caliber in history. Winchester 351 Self-Loading: Truly Amazing! Commonly known asthe Model 07, the Model 1907 rifle was also popular for law enforcement use. I have fired them all except the .22waiting for some ammo. SMOOTH GRAY METAL WITH GOOD WOOD AND A DECENT BORE. and .32 Rem. The .358 Win. This is the Winchester Model 62A chambered in .22S,L,LR. Winchester offered .351 WSL factory loads loaded with 180 grain jacketed soft point (JSP), round nose bullets. Mag.-all with a bigger, heavier bullet that will punch a bigger hole and penetrate deeper. I own several rifles in this cartridge and all my .35 Whelen rifles are accurate. Any series covering this topic would be incomplete without a look at the round, however! This gun is in excellent condition in its orignal hardcase with keys. Everybody agrees that the .358 Win. I would hold out for the 30 M1 CB unless i was just buying the Winchester for hunting or collecting . Winchester - Model 70, Target Model, .243 Winchester, 26" barrel. Many companies now offer bolt, semi-auto, and single-shot rifles chambered in the Legend, but the .30-30 can be found in the same variety. .30-30 Win, .35 Rem, .351 WSL, a.o., sizes. 2 - The lighter bullet of the .30 Carbine made for much lighter ammunition. were to go head to head with the .25-35 Win., .30-30 Win. and is probably a better deer and black bear cartridge at woods ranges than the more popular .30-30 Win. Mag. My pick by far is the 30 carbine for all the previous listed reasons. The Winchester 351 self-loading rifle is. After two years of development, Winchester did beat Remington to market with the Winchester Model 1905 rifle. These are a fun gun to have , shoot and collect. There are also thousands more .30-30 guns floating around the used market, so if youre looking to save some change, the older cartridge is the way to go. This ammunition is often loaded to lower velocities in consideration of older firearms which have not been properly maintained, and large differences are seen over the chronograph relative to vintage .351 SL ammunition. Other firms and individual designers submitted several carbine designs, but most prototypes were either unreliable or grossly off the target weight of five pounds. Upon its release, the Legend was marketed as a light-recoiling cartridge, and the .30-30 is also well-known as a good option for the recoil-sensitive. While the American mainstream wont accept the .35, they are not unloved. All that being said, if one were interested in hunting with a very unique rifle that you would be very unlikely to encounter in the woods in the hands of another hunter, the Winchester Model 1907 and Model 1910 autoloaders in .351 Winchester or .401 Winchester would be a great choice. Hornady has a Superformance load with a 200-grain SP at 2910 f.p.s. to achieve its potential. Norma offers factory ammunition, E.R. Shaw will make a rifle, as will any other custom, or semi-custom, riflemaker. In the years since, the .35 Rem. is on the threatened list, this one is on a path to extinction. The ammunition situation is a little better than the rifles. Again, the above is for comparative information purposes only, and you should consult the exact ballistics for the particular .30 M1 Carbine or .30-30 Winchester cartridge you're looking at purchasing. This stumpy little cartridge was introduced to the hunting public in 1908 and is the only surviving member of the early class of Remington rimless cartridges. MADE IN 1911. ANTIQUE MADE IN 1891. The quest for an acceptable .35 has inspired such impotent wastes as the .35 Winchester Self Loader, once labeled a candidate for the title: Worlds Most Useless Center-Fire Rifle Cartridge.. However, the calibers available in the Model 1905, the .32 Self Loading (.32 SL) and the .35 Self Loading (.35 SL), were realistically pretty underpowered for satisfactory use on big game. But when Winchester chambered the .358 the following year in its unique lever-action, the Model 88, it became a really interesting cartridge. The .351 Winchester Self-Loading (also called .351 SL or .351 WSL) is an American rifle cartridge designed in 1906. . . lbs., which is lower than normal .223 hunting and varmint loads. Probably over half the Model 1907 and 1910 rifles Ive examined over the years have a cracked forearm. WOOD HAS A REPAIRED CRACKS BUT IS SOLID. With a 200-grain bullet at 2460 f.p.s., it is a heavy-hitter on whitetails. Ruger made a few bolt-actions some years back, and Remington made rifles in the 700 Classic line, but they are long gone. .351 s.l. Mag., and I think thats the only current production rifle in that cartridge. Seller: cma959. This is a bolt action rifle with a 5round internal magazine and sports a 22 blued steel barrel with visible rif WINCHESTER 06 22 S,L,LR. These cartridges are remarkably similar from a ballistics standpoint, but the .30-30s slightly better long-distance performance gives it the edge in this category. Good article on the forgotten Winchesters. If that's what floats your boat. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. Hammer Women Of Distinction Award, Women's Wildlife Management / Conservation Scholarship, National Youth Shooting Sports Cooperative Program, Reloading Centerfire Ammunition: Tips For Getting Started, Shooting and Loading the 6.8x43 mm Rem. H Winchester Round Barrel Rifle, made in 1882. Mag. For hunting, it is considered a small-to-medium-game cartridge. About 1916 vintage. in its NoslerCustom line with a 225-grain Partition bullet at 2550 f.p.s. Still, the mild working characteristics of the .30 SL allowed the design of a very lightweight and simple gun, in a similar fashion to how the blowback-friendly .32 and .380 ACP rounds allowed the Kel-Tec P-32 and P3AT to be much smaller and lighter than their blowback counterparts. Plainfield Machine produced M1 carbines from 1960 to 1977, when they were bought out by Iver Johnson Corp, who has manufactured them at least until a 50th anniversary model in 1993. I believe it never will. Federal only offers two bullet weights for the Legend (160 grain and 180 grain). Winchester BismuthReview: Your Complete Guide, Best Hunting Rifle Slings Ultimate Guide [2023], 25-06 vs 30-06 Springfield Review & Comparison, 6.5 Grendel vs 300 Blackout Review & Comparison, 11 Reasons The Leupold VX-6HD Is An Outstanding Hunting Scope, 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 Review & Comparison, 28 Nosler vs 300 Win Mag Review & Comparison, Best 22 Hornet Ammo For Hunting Coyotes, Bobcats, & Other Varmints, 15 Best African Hunting Books For When Youre Dreaming Of Being On Safari[2023], Best 350 Legend Ammo For Hunting Deer, Hogs, Bear, & Other Game, Best 6.8 Western Rifles for Hunting Ultimate Guide [2023]. We determine a cartridges shootability by considering its cost, availability, and recoil energy. That suggests the difference, at least in part, is due to the bullet. The M1 used an unusual gas-operated system designed for a special .30 caliber cartridge. Weight-wise, the .30 Carbine is also a bit of a disappointment, clocking in at 12.70 grams per round of M2 .30 Carbine Ball ammunition, heavierthan the far more capable 5.5645. The 32 WSL fired a 165 gr SP at 1390 fps, this duplicated the 32-40 ballistics, the 32-40 was considered good for deer. As the winner of two out of three categories, the .30-30 Winchester deserves the overall nod. The .38 Smith & Wesson Special, designed in 1898, rocked the handgun realm with its ballistic performance making it a cartridge for the history books. If you match the bullet to the game, this is one of the all-time great hunting cartridges. The .401 WSL fired a 200 grain .406caliber soft point bullet at 2,140 feet per second for a walloping 2,034 ft-lbs of energy. *We Never share your email without your permission. The origins of the .35 Whelen are controversial even today. Sure a .351 would have been better, but weight savings was a HUGE priority for the design of the M1 Carbine. This cartridge was different from, but looked similar to, standard .22 Long and .22 Long Rifle cartridges. When the 357 Magnum revolvers came out, hunters used it to take an assortment of big and dangerous game. 24 inch barrel. the 32 was the hardest one to come up with, There are a lot of 351 out there and some very nice ones, Thanks for this article and the information in it. Own and shoot both. Finally, Winchester had developed an autoloader powerful enough to truly be used on North American big game. In 1966 there was a gold miner that was hunting with Dad and I. Remington continues to offer factory ammo, and its 200-grain factory load has a muzzle velocity of 2675 f.p.s., while the 250-grain loads muzzle velocity is 2400 f.p.s. Don't own one, shot one quite a lot back in the day when a kinsman had one. WITH BAYONET. [6] But for the handloader who has taken the time to replace the recoil spring and buffer in the Winchester Model 1907, the .351 SL can be loaded to its original velocities. It puts down Whitetail deer and wild hogs quite nicely. The weapon was originally issued with a 15-round detachable magazine. *I have mentioned before that it is in fact theItalians who claimed the prize of first intermediate caliber to be adopted as standard issue, with their long but still very much intermediate 7.35x51mm round. while finding .30 carbine ammo can be a challenge at times, finding adequate quantities of .351 SL would seem an impossible task. & scope has rust alon WINCHESTER 21 12GA 30 F/M. EARLY 3 DIGIT SERIAL NUMBER 904. I have all the calibers but short the 401 s and the 22 autos ,can you reload or sell a dox of each. into the deer woods, and I pine for what could have been. When we pitted the 30 Carbine vs 5.56, the 5.56 won 7/10 categories and tied in two, thanks to its low recoil and high accuracy capabilities. These seemingly small differences added up to a significant . As illustrated in the chart, .243 Winchester rounds - on average - achieve a velocity of about 3180 feet per second (fps) while .30 M1 Carbine rounds travel at a velocity of 1990 fps. 94 1946 excellent condition. Winchester also produced a load firing a 250 grain bullet at 1,870 feet per second (1,942 ft-lbs of energy). But these arent normal times. From my collection Winchester 1894. . It would cost into the 800dollar range just to rebuild one. Remington currently lists a Model 7 rifle with a 20-inch barrel; todays version of the 600 in .350 Rem. The 32 WSL duplicated the 32-40 ballistics. ARMSCORs RIA 5.0 ST semi-automatic 9 mm Luger pistol represents the companys first handgun to be designed and manufactured here in the United States. This design allowed the use of a simple blowback action, shared between the Winchester 1905, 1907, and 1910 rifles. The Rifle In America (p728, 730-731, & 733) was used as a referencefor the history of the cartridges discussed as well as their ballistic data. I wonder if some army brass had a 32-20 lever action rifle and thought that a semi auto rifle in 30 caliber would be good for combat? His was in pretty good shape. Among Federals offerings, the highest BC for a .350 Legend is .259 while the highest BC for a .30-30 is .313. This understandably led to mistakes and confusion among the buying public regarding the proper ammunition for the rifle and hampered sales of what should have been a very popular rifle. the Henry's seem to be very solid and the action is danged smooth. Posts: 5,141 . Probably well over half of the production for the last ten years went to police organizations in the United States. Mag. .30-.30 caliber In excellent used condition. SMOOTH PATINA METAL. A blowback action in the most basic autoloading action. For the .30-30, however, the company offers multiple 150- and 170-grain loads as well as a 125-grain jacketed hollow point and a 170-grain Nosler partition that the company bills as ideal for elk. It feels like you get an initial kick when the gun goes off, which is then followed immediately by even harder hit when the heavy movable actions parts slam to the rear of the rifle. Indeed, Winchester used the .32 Self Loading as the basis for development of the .30 Carbine cartridge in the early 1940s. It is capable of driving a. . is still not burning up the sales records, so maybe ahead of its time is the wrong description. With six rounds on tap, it makes a good hog-hunting gun as long as heavy shoulder bone is avoided. By experience, they would come to handle it semiautomatically, but it took prolonged battle hardening to bring about this adjustment in the human equation.

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